by Jerry Dunleavy
"Witness 2" helped the Ukraine whistleblower in 2019. The witness was also tied to Peter Strzok and the 2016 intel assessment on alleged Russian meddling.
Since he left the National Security Agency and the National
Security Council, Gavin Wilde has hit the podcast circuit and penned
articles suggesting Donald Trump parroted Russian propaganda while
reportedly lamenting “MAGA conspiracy theories.”
Just the News has confirmed that Wilde is the
unnamed “Witness 2“ identified in the Ukraine impeachment documents
released this month by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi
Gabbard. The 2019 claims by Witness 2 were critical in helping the
intelligence community watchdog push the whistleblower's complaint
forward, and his Russiagate-linked biases were concealed from House
investigators during the impeachment saga.
Wilde isn’t just your average spy agency retiree with an
anti-Trump chip on his shoulder. He played critical roles inside the
intelligence community in furthering the now discredited claims that
Vladimir Putin helped Trump win the 2016 election, and he pushed claims
that Trump later improperly tried to extort Ukraine’s president to
investigate the Biden family.
After leaving government in 2021, Wilde wrote
for the Council on Foreign Relations in 2022 that “during the 2016 and
2020 elections, Ukraine was a key theme of Russia’s interference
activities. Numerous Kremlin operatives had ties to Ukraine or to past
Russian interference in Ukraine […] Members of Congress and President
Trump himself parroted these narratives.”
U.S. government sources familiar with the matter, who declined to be named, told Just the News
that “Witness 2” was in fact Wilde, whose biography and public
statements match the biographical details which Witness 2 had provided
to investigators working for Intelligence Community Inspector General
Michael Atkinson in August 2019.
"Conspiracy theories" that turned out to be accurate
It was also reported by Rolling Stone
in 2024 that Wilde “says he’s concerned that the MAGA conspiracy
theories and the policies they inspire could have a chilling effect on
American intelligence and foreign policy going forward.”
While he was inserted into the Trump NSC in 2019, Wilde as
“Witness 2” told investigators he had been assisting the alleged
whistle-blower with making his disclosures, and also admitted to having a
connection to Peter Strzok, the FBI agent who was fired in 2019 for his
misbehavior while helping lead the discredited Russia collusion probe.
Witness 2 also disclosed
that he had also worked on a controversial January 2017 intelligence
community assessment (ICA) that claimed Vladimir Putin tried to help
Trump beat Hillary Clinton in that year’s presidential race, a
conclusion that the CIA now admits was based on faulty intelligence and
faulty spy tradecraft. The 2017 assessment had also cited the
discredited anti-Trump dossier written by British ex-spy Christopher
Steele.
At the time, Witness 2 said he had been a member of the NSC
since September 2018, and that his home agency was the National
Security Agency. He was apparently working for the Directorate of
Intelligence and for the European and Russian Affairs Directorate.
Wilde has listed this role
on the NSC in numerous online biographies of his, including stating
that he “coordinated whole-of-government efforts to counter Russian
malign influence efforts — including counterintelligence, cybersecurity,
and election security initiatives.” He also described himself as a “former NSA guy” during a 2024 panel, and has identified himself as an NSA alum in media interviews and online biographies.
Wilde's links to Strzok and the 2016 ICA were redacted from House investigators
Wilde allied with and assisted the CIA whistleblower — identified by
lawmakers and media reports as Eric Ciaramella — during the Ukraine saga
and spoke with Atkinson’s team on August 21, 2019.
“Witness 2” was also referenced nearly one hundred times in Atkinson’s recently-declassified
October 4, 2019, session before the House Intelligence Committee. The
declassified memos also recounted that “one of the jobs Witness 2 is
engaged in is to secure the election in 2020.”
Witness 2 disclosed
in 2019 that he had also worked on a controversial January 2017
intelligence community assessment that claimed Vladimir Putin tried to
help Trump beat Hillary Clinton in that year’s presidential race, an
assessment that the CIA now admits included flawed spy tradecraft. The
assessment also cited the discredited anti-Trump dossier written by
British ex-spy Christopher Steele.
The witness whose name remains redacted and who told investigators he
had been assisting the alleged whistleblower with making his
disclosures admitted to having a connection to Peter Strzok, the FBI agent who was fired in 2019 for his misbehavior while helping lead the discredited Russia collusion probe.
Wilde was first publicly named as the possible “Witness 2” by an online sleuth who goes by "Fool Nelson" who has focused on the Russiagate saga.
Wilde did not respond to requests for comment sent to him
through the Carnegie Endowment, Defense Priorities, and the Alperovitch
Institute, three organizations where Wilde is currently listed as
working.
Witness 2’s potential biases — including his involvement
with the ICA and, presumably, his prior affiliation with Strzok — were
recorded in interview notes by the inspector general’s team in 2019, but
were redacted and hidden from congressional investigators during the watchdog’s testimony.
Atkinson told
House investigators in October 2019 that “on August 21st, 2019, the
interviewers met in person with Witness 2” and that “we have produced a
redacted version of that memorandum of investigative activity.”
Rep. Mike Conaway, R-Texas, also remarked to the inspector
general at the time that “in other words, Witness 2, you specifically
asked for what are your biases — it is all redacted, of course." The
intel watchdog had also redacted key details related to Ciaramella’s biases as well.
Witness 2’s claims were key to Atkinson’s decision to advance the whistle-blower complaint
Atkinson made it clear that Witness 2 was a key source of
details used in Ciaramella’s whistleblower complaint, and the intel
watchdog also revealed that it was Witness 2’s comments to Atkinson’s
underlings which helped convince the inspector general to push the
Ukraine whistle-blower complaint forward.
“Witness 2 was the main source of information contained in
section 2 of the complainant's unclassified disclosure,” Atkinson told
House investigators in October 2019.
The whistleblower complaint centered on a July 25, 2019, phone call
between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The call was
the day after Justice Department special counsel Robert Mueller’s
congressional testimony on the findings of his investigation into
whether the 2016 Trump campaign colluded with Russia.
Trump was impeached by the Democrat-led House in late 2019. The president was acquitted by the Senate in early 2020.
Witness 2 claimed a “moral and patriotic duty” to help Ukraine whistle-blower
Witness 2 told the inspector general interviewers that he
was helping Ciaramella in 2019 due to his alleged feelings of patriotism
and morality, according to declassified memos.
“Witness 2 is assisting Complainant in regard to the urgent
concern because Witness 2 wants to be able to sleep at night, and
[Redacted] wants to help Complainant sleep at night, by registering how
concerning this whole thing was,” the interview memo said. The memo
added that Witness 2 stated that he “feels a moral and patriotic duty to
help Complainant due [sic] what is right” and said that he wanted to
“sleep the sleep of the just.'’
“Witness 2 commented that what Complainant put together is a
concerning set of circumstances. What was in the transcript, however,
rubs Witness 2 the wrong way as both a citizen and as a voter. Witness 2
mentioned the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act,” the memo added.
“Witness 2's impression of what President Trump said during
the telephone call was out of the norm and was an affront. Witness 2
opined that ‘it was not okay’ to say what President Trump said during
the call,” the interview memo said. “After reading the transcript of the
call, Witness 2 had a strong feeling of deep disappointment. Witness 2
also had a feeling of dejection and helplessness.” Witness 2 called it
“an affront to truth, justice and the American way.”
“Witness 2 made it clear that [redacted] would not have
taken independent action on the information [redacted] read in the
transcript for two reasons: first that [redacted] routinely deals with
issues on a daily basis that are contrary to [redacted] personal
beliefs; and second that [redacted] did not have the level of granular
insight of details related to the Ukraine that Complainant had,” the
memo said. “Witness 2 could not connect the same dots that Complainant
did into the impact of what was said during the telephone call.”
The interview memo also said: “However politically or
ethically distasteful the information was in the transcript, Witness 2
did not have one explicit thing to point to in order to bring forward.
Witness 2 mentioned again the lack of granular detail that Complainant
had to bring the urgent concern forward. Witness 2 would not have been
able to get from ‘point A to Z’ the way Complainant did.”
Birds of a feather
Ciaramella and Wilde both currently work at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Wilde has written for and done podcast episodes with the anti-Trump Lawfare outlet, where Ciaramella is a contributing editor. Wilde has a “Contributor” page at Lawfare. Ciaramella, Wilde, and others co-authored
a December 2023 article for the Center for New American Security on
“Identifying Russian Vulnerabilities and How to Leverage Them.”
Ciaramella also wrote a June 2023 piece
for the Carnegie Endowment on “Envisioning a Long-Term Security
Arrangement for Ukraine” — where he thanked Wilde for his “insightful
comments on a draft of this paper.”
“In the aftermath of Moscow’s wide-ranging attempts to
influence the outcome of the 2016 U.S. presidential election cycle, U.S.
officials and media trained their focus on the immediate impacts to
electoral infrastructure, on potential conspiracy by U.S. citizens, and
on the methodology behind Russia’s active measures,” Wilde later wrote in a piece for the Atlantic Council in March 2022.
“The partisan fervor attending this focus — from the Robert
Mueller investigation to the (first) impeachment trial of President
Donald Trump — has obscured a common thread also woven throughout
Moscow’s assaults on the U.S. political system over the past seven
years: reversing Ukraine’s drift away from Russia following the 2014
Maidan Revolution and discrediting the movement’s backers in Kyiv and
Washington,” Wilde wrote.
“The 2020 election cycle demonstrated that the time-tested
‘active measures’ tradecraft of the KGB era is still effective,” Wilde
added.
Witness 2 admitted he never had access to Trump-Zelensky call transcript
Atkinson revealed that, despite Witness 2’s importance in
allegedly buttressing Ciaramella’s claims, Witness 2 had not certifiably
read the finalized transcript of the call between Trump and Zelensky.
Then-Rep. Peter Welch, D-Vt., asked Atkinson in October 2019, “When you
made your determination about the urgency of this matter, you didn't
have the actual readout of the call, correct?”
“I did not have the actual transcript, that's correct,” Atkinson replied.
Welch continued, “Right. So you had information that was
disclosed to you from the whistle-blower about what Witness 1 and
Witness 2 had told him, correct?”
“That's correct. And we also had what Witness 2 told us
about Witness 2's recollection of having read the call records,”
Atkinson said. The watchdog later added that “Witness 2 had authorized
access to the White House and to the White House records as part of
Witness 2's official duties.”
Then-Rep. Devin Nunes, R. Calif., who is now the chair of
the President’s Intelligence Advisory Board, asked Atkinson, “So Witness
2 read the transcript [of the Trump-Zelensky call] that has now been
declassified?”
The intelligence community watchdog admitted he wasn’t
sure. “I do not know what written record Witness 2 read,” Atkinson said.
“I don't know if Witness 2 read the same transcript that was — or same
memorandum that was declassified by the White House.”
“Witness 2 reviewed the transcript [of the call between
Trump and Zelenskyy] in order to have situational awareness of the
circumstances surrounding the call, and the discussions of the call, as
he was covering for the Director of Ukraine, hereafter referred to as
(‘Alex’), while Alex was out of the office,” the recently-declassified
memo said.
The “Alex” official is not directly identified in the
declassified interview memo, but Alexander Vindman — who would become a
major witness in the politically-motivated Ukraine impeachment effort in
2019 — was the Director for Ukraine and European Affairs on the NSC at
the time.
Witness 2 said that he “read between the lines” to connect call to 2020 election
The interview memo from Witness 2 stated
that he had assessed that Trump had made a “request for assistance”
from Zelensky, and then later changed his assessment to it having been a
“quid pro quo.” The memo also said that he had “read between the lines”
to connect the Trump-Zelensky conversation to the then-upcoming 2020
election, even though he didn’t remember that election actually being
mentioned.
The memo added: “Witness 2 had no recollection of an
explicit reference to the 2020 Presidential elections, but it seemed
implicit when Witness 2 ‘read between the lines’ of what was said. There
was not an ‘if you want X, I need Y’ type of framework to what was
said, but it was implicit.”
“In aggregate, after reading the transcript and learning
the context related to Ukraine, President Trump's statements to
President Zelenskyy seemed to be politically motivated solicitations,”
the memo added. “Reading between the lines is an interpretation that
someone has. Correct?” then-Rep. Brad Wenstrup, R-Ohio, now a member of
the President's Intelligence Advisory Board, asked Atkinson.
“Reading
between the lines was a phrase that Witness 2 used to describe how he
came to infer from the President's statements that there was a
solicitation […] from a foreign government for assistance in a U.S.
election,” the watchdog replied.
Wenstrup replied, “Therefore, an interpretation. That's
really what you're saying […] It's not factual, it is an interpretation.
I think we can all agree with that.”
The inspector general added that “Witness 2 had no
recollection of an explicit reference by President Trump to the 2020
Presidential elections, but that seemed implicit to Witness 2 when
Witness 2, quote, ‘read between the lines,’ end quote, of what was
said.”
The Ukraine whistleblower complaint itself did not actually use the term “quid pro quo” — but Democrats seeking to impeach Trump did. Trump repeatedly denied that there had been any quid pro quo, pointing to the transcript of the discussion and referring to it as a “perfect call.”
Witness 2’s involvement with 2016 ICA was hidden from Congress
In a section on “Potential for Biases or to Be
Discredited”, it was also revealed that “Witness 2” had helped with the
ICA on alleged Russian election meddling.
“If someone were to try to discredit information provided
by Witness 2, they might focus on Witness 2 being the co-author of the
2017 ICA (Intelligence Community Assessment) on Russian Interference in
the 2016 election,” the memo said, adding that “the ICA could have been,
or could be looked at, as negative towards President Trump.”
The ICA was written at the direction
of then-President Obama and largely overseen by since-fired FBI
Director James Comey, former CIA Director John Brennan, and former
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.
The Senate Intelligence Committee wrongly concluded in April and August
2020 reports that British ex-spy Christopher Steele’s discredited
anti-Trump dossier was not used in the body of the ICA and that the
dossier claims were not used to underpin any of the ICA’s findings — a
conclusion debunked by a House Intelligence Committee report declassified last year and by a CIA review released in 2025.
Wilde has spoken numerous times about his role in helping formulate the 2016 ICA on Russian meddling.
“Witness 2” worked with disgraced Russiagate figure Peter Strzok
The memo said that “Witness 2 worked with Peter Strozk
[sic], and Witness 2 knew how it would play out if [Redacted] said
anything” as the intelligence community watchdog quoted him saying that
“if I unilaterally try to make an issue out of it the only person
impacted is me and not for the better.”
It is unclear when and how Witness 2 worked with Strzok —
whether in 2016, related to the Trump-Russia investigation, or in
separate circumstances — but one of Wilde’s online biographies states
that he spent “several years as a linguist for the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.” Wilde speaks Russian, and Strzok spent many years
working on Russia-related cases.
Strzok was a key player
throughout the FBI’s deeply flawed Crossfire Hurricane investigation,
and his text messages in 2016 repeatedly displayed an anti-Trump
sentiment. Strzok was so central to Crossfire Hurricane that he wrote
the memo which launched the investigation and says he personally came up
with its name based on the lyrics from a Rolling Stones song. The
“opening electronic communication” for Crossfire Hurricane was authored by Strzok and authorized by FBI official Joe Priestap at the end of July 2016.
Wilde spent years at the Defense Department, now at DC think tanks
Wilde is currently a non-resident fellow in the Technology
and International Affairs Program at the Carnegie Endowment for
International Peace, with the think tank saying
that he “applies his expertise on Russia and information warfare to
examine the strategic challenges posed by cyber and information
operations, propaganda, and emerging technologies.”
He is also currently a non-resident fellow at the Defense Priorities think tank and is also currently listed as a teacher at the Alperovitch Institute for Cybersecurity Studies at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies.
Wilde’s biography at Johns Hopkins says
that he “previously assessed geopolitical risk for multinational
corporations as a managing consultant at Krebs Stamos Group, a
cybersecurity advisory.”
Christopher Krebs is a founding partner of the Krebs Stamos Group, and was the former head
of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. Krebs, who had
been the head of CISA until he was fired by Trump after the 2020
election, testified that the election was the most secure in U.S. history.”
Wilde has deleted the accounts he once had on Twitter/X and on the left-leaning social media site Mastodon. His bio for the former said “Geo-Techno-Info-Politics and [Russia] issues” and for the latter said “a [Russia]-hand on Geo-Info-Techno-Politics.” Wilde also deleted his Bluesky account.
Wilde’s online resume
at the Latvian Institute of International Affairs states that, beyond
his NSC role in 2018 and 2019, he was a “senior analyst” at the Defense
Department from 2009 to 2021, where he “directed analysis to provide
impactful insights to the U.S. intelligence, policymaking, diplomatic,
and military communities.”
His resume also says he received a master’s degree in
national security strategy from National Defense University in 2021, and
that he had gotten a bachelor’s degree in Russian studies from the
University of Utah in 2008, where he had spent his “final semester as a
U.S. Department of State intern at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, Ukraine.”
Jerry Dunleavy
Source: https://justthenews.com/accountability/whistleblowers/ided-witness-2-helped-ukraine-whistleblower-worked-strzok-wrote-2016
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