by MEMRI
Dashti and Al-Manna argued that although the Islamic scholars repeatedly emphasized that they do not support ISIS, their statements are in line with ISIS ideology.
During a TV debate
dedicated to the engagement of Arab youth with ISIS and other terror
organizations, liberal activists Nasser Dashti and Ayed Al-Manna clashed with
Islamic sheikhs Abdallah Al-Hamdan and Khaled Al-Sultan. The latter compared
the extremism of the Islamist terror organizations to extremism he alleged
exists among secular Arabs, saying that "the same crimes are committed by
both camps." Dashti and Al-Manna argued that although the Islamic scholars
repeatedly emphasized that they do not support ISIS, their statements are in
line with ISIS ideology. Dashti concluded that the time has come to remove
religion from public life in the Arab world and to confine it to the private
sphere. The show aired on the Kuwaiti Al-Shahed TV on July 11.
Nasser Dashti: "The religious heritage is the cause of the cultural and
ideological catastrophes from which we are suffering.
[...]
"I pay no attention to the fatwas of
all those religious sheikhs. These fatwas have ripped our
countries and our peoples apart, have sown destruction and discord, and have
led people astray. In the wake of these fatwas, we have seen
nothing but ignorance, bombings, takfir, and ethnic
cleansing."
[...]
Khaled Al-Sultan: "We are experiencing two kinds of extremism - religious
extremism, on the one hand, and extremism in leniency and indifference toward
religion, on the other hand. The same crimes are committed by both camps. Many
of the (terror) incidents you are seeing in the world today... In America, for
example, a man killed his mother, his wife, and his three daughters. Was that
man religious?! Was he a Muslim?!"
Dashti: "That's pure evil."
Al-Sultan: "That man was an atheist. He wasn't religious.
[...]
"It's true that our interpretation of
Islamic texts is based on an erroneous understanding."
[...]
Dashti: "How can an erroneous understanding continue for over 14
centuries? How come only the Islamic nation finds it difficult to understand
its heritage and its religious texts?
[...]
"The Quran does not speak. People do. These
are religious texts... Let me give you an example of a nice verse: 'Whoever
kills a soul unless for another soul - it is as if he has killed all of
Mankind.' The verse that immediately follows reads: 'The penalty for those who
wage war against Allah and His Messenger...' Go on, complete the verse. It is
that 'they be killed or crucified or their hands and feet be cut on alternate
sides.' Look what kind of verse immediately follows the (positive) verse. The
religious texts, the heritage, and the interpretations contain good and evil at
the same time, and that is a problem."
[...]
Ayed Al-Manna: "The Muslims in America, in Britain, in France, in Canada,
and in China - how come they do not slaughter one another? Aren't there Muslims
there too?"
Nasser Dashti: "Why do the Muslims dream of emigrating to the infidel
countries?"
Abdallahy Khizam
Al-Hamdan: "What my colleague Dr. Khaled Al-Sultan
said is based on principles."
Host: "What Nasser Dashti said is also based on principles."
Al-Hamdan: "No, it is devoid of principles."
Host: 'You are claiming that what he said is devoid of
principles?"
Al-Hamdan: "What Mr. Dashti said is as empty as can be."
Host: "So you claim that his words are empty?"
Al-Hamdan: "Very empty. They are not based on principles."
Host: "What about Dr. Ayed Al-Manna? Some of the things he said
are correct, and some need to be corrected."
[...]
Dashti: "People are always saying that ISIS does not represent
Islam, that the militias do not represent Islam..."
Al-Sultan: "True, they don't."
Dashti: "But if you asked Dr. Al-Sultan here about apostates, he
would say that apostates should be killed. The People of the Book? He'd say
that they should pay the jizya in humiliation. What about
polytheists? They should be fought."
Al-Sultan: "These are all violations, like running a red
light..."
Dashti: "When someone commits a traffic violation, he pays a fine.
He doesn't get executed."
Al-Sultan: "The Ministry of the Interior is in charge of dealing with
traffic violations, and it sends the perpetrator to court."
Al-Sultan: "These are all violations, like running a red
light..."
Dashti: "When someone commits a traffic violation, he pays a fine.
He doesn't get executed."
Al-Sultan: "The Ministry of the Interior is in charge of dealing with
traffic violations, and it sends the perpetrator to court. Who decides in those
cases of apostasy and executions? The ruler, the judge. I don't allow myself or
you to..."
Dashti: "Are you comparing a traffic violation to the killing of
someone who left his religion?!"
[...]
Al-Sultan: "According to the Shari'a, (an apostate) should be killed.
Dashti: The People of the Book should pay the jizya tax?"
Al-Sultan: "Yes."
Dashti: "'In humiliation'"?
Al-Sultan: "Yes, in humiliation. So what? We pay for visas 'in
humiliation,' so what?"
Dashti: "Do you get smacked on the back of your head while paying
for your visas?"
Al-Sultan: "'In humiliation' does not mean being beaten."
Dashti: "The viewers can search on Google or in Lisan
Al-Arab what 'humiliation' means."
Al-Sultan: "Fine. Go check the word in the Lisan Al-Arab dictionary.
It's like when you go to an embassy and pay for a visa, whether you like it or
not."
[...]
Al-Mahdan: "Good people, we do not support ISIS..."
Al-Manna: "You're done supporting them?"
Al-Mahdan: "Let me finish."
Al-Manna: "You're done with them?"
Al-Mahdan: "We do not support ISIS. Not today, not yesterday, and not
tomorrow.
[...]
"What does Allah want? He wants his shari'a to
be implemented. Along comes a human being and defies Allah with his mind. He
defies the Creator who created this mind."
Al-Manna: "That's exactly what ISIS is saying. Why don't you support
them and that's it? That is exactly what they say. You want an Islamic state,
and they have declared one. Why don't you support them?"
[...]
Dashti: "With regard to the question why our youth are being led
astray, I believe that the reason is the concept of the Hereafter, which is
instilled in their minds, with all the stories of the Paradise virgins and so
on, and at the same time it is the result of fatwas and
heritage that prohibit all the innocent pleasures in their lives. They banned
music, signing, theater, sculpture, love... Everything. Such a person has
nothing to lose in this world.
[...]
"So far, my two colleagues have not
denounced the fundamentals of ISIS. They share with ISIS the fundamentals and
ideological means - the Islamic punishments, the implementation of the shari'a,
and the desire for an Islamic state - but they employ appeasing words: 'true
Islam,' 'the people in charge'... I believe that the time has come for us to
adopt the secular, rational, scientific approach, and to remove religion from
public life and confine it to the private sphere. Every person is free to
understand his religion as he sees fit, and he is free to change his religion,
to adopt any school of thought or religion, and to spread his ideas in keeping
with the modern rules of human rights."
MEMRI
Source: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/5597.htm
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